Germans on migration for work?

[dorian jane]

A topic in the evening news tonight  and i've been wondering if it's true or if it's just another tv exaggeration..Germans migrating to find a job???
Hell, that IS a first!!
The topic went on and on telling us about Greek companies that have moved to "eastern block" countries in order to achieve working hands with lower salaries (i already knew that working for an export clothing agency for over 3 years) , an action now followed by the French (who in fact told their employees that if they wanted to keep their jobs they should go to Rumania and work there for the same French companies  but for 110 euros per month!! (that is what a Rumanian employee gets , while the lowest salary in France is 1.110 euros!!!!!!)
Comments please!!!

[TexJoachim]

There is such a thing, but on several different levels:

-unemployed Germans (lots of them from East Germany) migrate to Austria and perhaps Switzerland for jobs during the holiday seasons. There is no chance for them to find work in their hometowns (sometimes with 50% unemployment rate), so they move elsewhere.

-German medical doctors migrate to Skandinava, GB and Arabian countries. These people migrate because the wages for startes in the medical profession are much higher (in Germany as low as € 9/h, in GB usually €100/h) and  there is less enslavement/abuse on the job. Most of the doctors do not return to Germany. We are already short of 5000 MDs, if the papers are correct.

To my knowledge, no German has been told to relocate to Eastern Europe to keep his/her job. But I'm notoriously unreliable about these matters, so things might be different.

Greetz,

Tex

[dorian jane]

Why is that so? I mean East Germany is united with the West Germany since 1989 (I happen to have some rocks of the Berlin wall myself, but that's an other subject) and i know that at that time you all faced great difficulties - a chaotic situation in general- but i thought that after so many years things would have been stabilized, cause you of all Europeans have the ability to build upon ashes and stand on yr feet rapidly ( and i trully admire that in you) .  
Does this happen due to the millions of immigrants? I mean we face that problem here with the Albanians, Russians and Chinese, but it seems that most of them have jobs no Greek wants to have any more..(farm jobs, constructions, etc), except from the Chinese of course who made lots of clothing shops  close for good cause of the very cheap prices (but then again the canny Greeks buy from them wholesale and resell afterwards at retail).

As for the doctors , well i dont' want to get started , cause the situation in Greece is dramatic. We have excellent doctors who achieve miracles -but ,alas, not in our country.

[Souleraser]

Why is that so? I mean East Germany is united with the West Germany since 1989 (I happen to have some rocks of the Berlin wall myself, but that's an other subject) and i know that at that time you all faced great difficulties - a chaotic situation in general- but i thought that after so many years things would have been stabilized, cause you of all Europeans have the ability to build upon ashes and stand on yr feet rapidly ( and i trully admire that in you) .

Pretty difficult topic which can't be dealt with that easily.
First problem: there were no ashes. The people from East Germany had a quite comfortable life - as long as one can get along with an almighty Big Brother - and the people in West Germany had worked hard so far already to achieve their wealth. No one thought it would be necessary to work hard - those from the east expected those from the west to just share their wealth and those from the west expected those from the east to achieve as much as they had done in much shorter time. There's a so called "solidarity tax" paid by all western employees since 1989 which is supposed to be used for the "rebuilding" of the east.

One can sum it up with "too many mistakes have been made", mistakes all Germans (especially us younger ones) will have to pay (literally and unliterally) for in the future, especially as there's no one around to seriously face and correct these mistakes.

Does this happen due to the millions of immigrants? I mean we face that problem here with the Albanians, Russians and Chinese, but it seems that most of them have jobs no Greek wants to have any more..(farm jobs, constructions, etc)

The situation is similar and different at the same time and I'm not in the position to seriously and reliably comment on our immigrant situation, but I know that their number is steadily decreasing. Those who are here - as far as they're allowed to work after all - are usually doing just that kind of jobs you mentioned except for a certain small percentage that works in high tech jobs our industry and universities failed to raise and provide an offspring.

And for the jobs between "upper end" and "lower end"... Well, some jobs aren't required anymore as machines and robots can do that work more efficient and cheaper.

[dorian jane]

First problem: there were no ashes.

I was refering to World War 2.

What you said is very interesting.I didn't know about the solidarity tax, and i agree with you
about people yr age eventually paying for mistakes you didn't make..It's exactly the same over here..  
It is pretty awkward..Eastern Germans wanting what Western Germans worked hard to get..IWell at least you are all Germans..(that was meant as a joke,a bitter one..). In Greece  foreigners want everything the Greeks have and that would be cool if most of them didn't steal, kill or sell drugs and had respect for the country that became their home.. That's one of the mistakes people my age in Greece didn't make, but paying for it already..

[Souleraser]

First problem: there were no ashes.

I was refering to World War 2.

Yeah. That's why it worked back in those days but not after 1989.

[dorian jane]

Why so? I don't really believe that the Germans changed that much..Ok, there are new,younger generations but i don't think that a whole nation's spirit could turn upside down..
And can you please tell me how to do that thing you all do when quoting? I tried but with no success.. (stupid me  :oops: )

[Souleraser]

Why so? I don't really believe that the Germans changed that much..Ok, there are new,younger generations but i don't think that a whole nation's spirit could turn upside down..

As I already tried to say: No one thought it would be necessary to work hard back in those days and since then many of us enjoy to lean back and point their fingers at politicians instead of getting active themselves. So yeah, too many of us lost that spirit. We like to pass around responsibility instead of taking it.

And can you please tell me how to do that thing you all do when quoting? I tried but with no success.. (stupid me  :oops: )

There ought to be a checkbox below the input box: "Deactivate BBCode for this posting" (or something, I'm using the german interface, I'm not sure). This must not be active. And also check whether BBCode is active in general in your profile: "Always activate BBCode" needs to be set to "Yes".

[dorian jane]

As I already tried to say: No one thought it would be necessary to work hard back in those days and since then many of us enjoy to lean back and point their fingers at politicians instead of getting active themselves.

I now see what you mean..this sounds so familiar! It's always easier to blame someone else
instead of taking our own responsibilities..After all, what could we expect from politicians other than corruption and decadence? Some good ones still exist, but they are few and can't do much i'm afraid..It's like a virus spread , taking away all initiatives and good will..

There ought to be a checkbox below the input box: "Deactivate BBCode for this posting" (or something, I'm using the german interface, I'm not sure). This must not be active. And also check whether BBCode is active in general in your profile: "Always activate BBCode" needs to be set to "Yes".

Ok ,  let's see..Yeah!  Thanks ! :D

[Souleraser]

After all, what could we expect from politicians other than corruption and decadence? Some good ones still exist, but they are few and can't do much i'm afraid..It's like a virus spread , taking away all initiatives and good will..

Absolutely true. The problem is: Efficient measures are hardly ever popular, therefore most politicians won't dare to enforce them because they'd risk losing all their privileges, ranks etc.

Ok ,  let's see..Yeah!  Thanks ! :D

Glad I could help

[dorian jane]

Absolutely true. The problem is: Efficient measures are hardly ever popular, therefore most politicians won't dare to enforce them because they'd risk losing all their privileges, ranks etc.

Aha! So right!! But tricky one too, cause like a boomerang turns back to us voters, don't you agree? I can't speak for others, but in my country one thing's for sure:Everybody complains about politicians taking wrong & unfair measures but when elections come and politicians start giving promises, the unthinkable happens and certain political parties get reelected again (and again and again..) That in fact is the problem in Greece, voters have the memory of a goldfish.. it lasts only for 3 seconds .. :(

[Souleraser]

Aha! So right!! But tricky one too, cause like a boomerang turns back to us voters, don't you agree?

Completely agreed.

I can't speak for others, but in my country one thing's for sure:Everybody complains about politicians taking wrong & unfair measures but when elections come and politicians start giving promises, the unthinkable happens and certain political parties get reelected again (and again and again..) That in fact is the problem in Greece, voters have the memory of a goldfish.. it lasts only for 3 seconds .. :(

*lol* It's pretty much like that here with us. Everyone agrees that something needs to be changed - and everyone points at their neighbor while saying that. Our current government was elected because everyone expected them to do things differently than the government that had been in charge for about 16 years before. Well, they do things differently now including some really painful changes (and painful they are) and suddenly everone seems to forget that the other party (better: parties) are likely to make even more painful changes - as they had done already when they were in charge.

[dorian jane]

Ha ha!! I know exactly what you mean!! I guess it's the same everywhere..

Our current government was elected because everyone expected them to do things differently than the government that had been in charge for about 16 years before.

Our current government (right wing) was elected for the reasons you stated - plus they managed to convince voters that they are into socialism (!!!) - and the previous government - socialists who turned into left wingers (!!!) - was in charge for 20 years ,which made them too arrogant and manipulating.
And now voters feel betrayed -again- cause they understood they've been fed with more lies, unfulfilled promises and more manipulation.. The thing is that a nation with such a  history as ours should have known better than that.

[TexJoachim]

There is only one thing left: "Don't vote, it only encourages them!"
:-D

Greetz,

Tex

[dorian jane]

Oh my friend , not voting is something i would never do. I'm Greek , remember? We invented voting (did you know that in ancient Athens people were at a time so fed up with politicians  that stopped attending the parliament meetings, so the politicians in order to get them back there, started paying everyone present? )
There was a time that i was against voting and threw void ballots in the box, but since i'm older and hopefully wiser, i vote. I WON'T stay indifferent while others decide about MY future (and afterwards just bitch about the elected or non-elected ones).
I  would suggest  something though which might really shock them all: Void (black , as we say here) ballots from every voter in the country!! That would be something they'd never expect.. :twisted:  
Plus, not voting deprives me of my travelling abroad rights. And i like travelling a lot.. :wink: