Is "Home of the Knave" Anti-American?

[sed_awk]

I found some of the words to the new Falconer CD on-line.  Land of the Knave sounds pretty much like they are calling all Americans dishonest and not to be trusted; especially since there are so many inferences to the U.S.  

The last 2 lines are a rip on "America the Beautiful."  And the "Home of the Brave"
There are other references in the song that point to American symbols of government.

If this is true, its going to be hard for me to put my $$$ into an CD or a band that calls all Americans knaves.   At that point they're not much different from the jackasses that flew planes into our buildings.   I really do hope I'm wrong on this account because I really enjoy Falconers music.  There are a lot of good and bad people no matter where you go in this world.  

For those that don't know this, most Americans are just like everyone else in this world; just trying to get by and do what is right by their family.  They go to work, are mostly under paid, work and average of 60 hours a week, and are one to two months away from becoming homeless.  We pay the highest cost for medical care; this is evident by our infant mortality rate alone which is one of the bottom 25 of developed countries.  Our social security system is in danger of falling apart and most people can't afford to save for their retirement.  So, for all of those folks that think life here in the U.S is like Hollywood party, guess again.  

If I had my way, this money that we're spending on war should be redirected into alternative fuel research.  We (yes those stupid/uneducated Americans) are really close to implementing the mass production of bio-fuels (diesel fuel made from corn).  
If we can do this we'll be putting to work a lot of farmers in this country, and perhaps then the role of feeding and medicating the world for free can be passed on to our European friends.  I’ll tell you it’s a real slap in the face when we have to pay 3 to 5 times more for the same medication than everyone else does.  So, if you don’t have a good job with good insurance you go without, and we have a lot of people in this country going without.   And even if you do have good insurance you still go without.

Don't get me wrong, I've lived in Europe for 3 years and I dearly love European culture and its people.  But over the last few years, I think we've been getting an unfair rap from those that I really would like to consider our friends.  If you weren’t here for the Trade Center disaster then you won’t understand.  I’m actually glad that GWB was in office then, because if it had been me Afghanistan would be a very large sheet of glass right now.  Now in retrospect that would have been disastrous, but that is how deeply this hit some Americans, including myself.  9/11 can never happen again, and I don’t care what needs to be done to keep it form happening again.  It can never happen again.  I don’t ever want to turn on the TV on my first day of vacation and see what I saw on television that morning.  My aunt by the way was also in that building.

Sorry for the soap box, but this song kicked off a lot of suppressed emotions in me.

[Mindtraveller]

I found some of the words to the new Falconer CD on-line.

Can you post a link? It'd be interesting to read the lyrics.

[<Horus-Nikopol>]

I have tried but didn't find any of the lyrics online. Maybe he downloaded the album.  :roll:

sed_awk: I only know the title of the song so I cannot comment on the lyrics, but I have also wondered whether "Home of the Knave" might be a reference to "Home of the Brave". Maybe Stefan can shed some light on this. And provide us with some much needed lyrics.

I sympathise with your situation and appreciate the diversity of American culture and the general good nature of you folks, I'm not your stereotype European America-basher either.

But please do not say things like "At that point they're not much different from the jackasses that flew planes into our buildings" because that is just the kind of black and white "good America vs. evil world and if you don't support us you're with the enemy" crap that nurtures a lot of the criticism that you are complaining about. I can't criticise the US government because otherwise I'm a terrorist? What the %&$§? Is this the O'Reilly Factor for metalheads?

I love America, I even have the flag, something I have to justify every time someone enters my room, because bashing America is simply "in" these days in Europe. It's annoying but I'll never remove it from the wall.

I had mixed feelings about the Iraq war, meaning that I was one of few Europeans who were not strictly against it, but please. Even if "Home of the Knave" is a take on modern-day American government, Falconer have every right to say something relevant about an idiot who got to run daddy's company and sent hundreds of good men and women to their doom on the other side of the world to find wmd's that don't exist and get us some more of them oil barrels (insert Jon Stewart's GWB laugh here).

Uhm... Stefan?  

[The Black Knight]

But please do not say things like "At that point they're not much different from the jackasses that flew planes into our buildings" because that is just the kind of black and white "good America vs. evil world and if you don't support us you're with the enemy" crap that nurtures a lot of the criticism that you are complaining about. I can't criticise the US government because otherwise I'm a terrorist? What the %&$§? Is this the O'Reilly Factor for metalheads?

Exactly my thoughts.

[jakob_hasse]

If this is true, its going to be hard for me to put my $$$ into an CD or a band that calls all Americans knaves.   At that point they're not much different from the jackasses that flew planes into our buildings.   I really do hope I'm wrong on this account because I really enjoy Falconers music.  There are a lot of good and bad people no matter where you go in this world.

Maybe you should take it easy right there, mister. It's clear the USA hast cost Europe so much in history and I as a Dane cannot sympathise with the USA in any way, but saying that we as europeans, who are critical towards your faulty nation, are nothing better than some islamic fools, is stupid.

I too would like to see those lyrics!

 

[The Black Knight]

This discussion could get very interesting.

[sed_awk]

I'll see if I can find the lyrics when time permits.  Some response to some of the comments that I've seen so far.

1) I was commented in reference to the 9/11 hijackers that when people judge one nation as a whole based on one man that is wrong.  

2)  I would like to know what the Americans have cost the Danes.  Please enumerate so I can better understand.  Otherwise, it comes across as a baseless comment.  The one item of truth in that statement is that the U.S is an imperfect nation as I illustrated in my original post.  We have a lot of problems over here that we need to work on.  So who was it that said we were a perfect nation.  It certainly wasn't me, and I don't think that the majority of Americans think that either.  I’m sorry if America didn’t/hasn’t lived up to the worlds expectations.  We are people just like everyone else with the same problems and challenges that every society has to work through. As I said before, what you see in the movies is the farthest thing from what America really is or about.

3) Here are some of the lyrics.  OK we get who the reference of who the king is supposed to be in this song.  The blindfold and sword are symbols of the American justice system.  

Once upon a time there was a restless king in charge
What could he contribute to write some history?
So on he marched for reasons quite obscure.

With a blindfold and sword, come deliver us from evil
Great savior of all, so honest and brave.  Your land of the free is the home of the knave.
Great savior of all, so honest and brave.  Your land of the free is the home of the knave.

Echoes of crusaders were heard across the world.
As he fought against the legions sent from Hell.
Shadows of the templers have yet to gather fact
Creeds are cast aside determination still in tact.

With a bindfold and sword, come deliver us from evil
Great savior of all, so honest and brave.  Your land of the free is the home of the knave.
Great savior of all, so honest and brave.  Your land of the free is the home of the knave.


4)  I never said that people should have the right to say what they think about a government, or even a certain man in government.   But trust me, most of what you see on Television and the news is a distortion of the truth.  I can say this with some credibility because I've seen it in practice.  Having sat in government for 2 years, I can say it is one of the hardest things I've ever done.  Someone thinks they hear you say something, or misinterprets you statements and sooner than later it’s all over the news; a very gross distortion of fact and the farthest thing from the truth.  Sometimes you don't have a fair opportunity to rebut yourself so you have no choice to sit and take the abuse.  On top of that your faced with situations were you have to make decisions without all the facts in hand.  But you have to make those decisions now with the information you have because there is a statutory time frame that is placed on you do not have the option of waiting until all the information has come in.  So instead, you go with your gut and stay away at night praying to God that you took the right path.  So before you rush to cast stones, think about who your throwing those stones at and why.  I encourage everyone to run and hold a seat of government.  It will dramatically change your views on life, the world and the people in it.  Sabatini couldn't have been more correct when he said "Hypocrisy is the Keynote of humanity."

So, I get the songs about George W. Bush and the war in Iraq.  I’m OK with that.  It’s OK to be critical of government, and we should be critical of government.  It’s healthy to be critical of government.  I am concerned with the “crusade” remark because it is the same reference used by the Arab world toward the US.  Trust me; most Americans really have no interest in controlling the world.  We’re too busy trying to figure out how we are going to get our kids out the door to school and keep a paycheck coming into the house, which is getting harder these days because most of the good paying jobs are flying overseas.  With both parents having to work to keep the household afloat we generally don’t get the important time that is necessary to keep a family intact.  Most people concentrate on family time whenever they have an open opportunity.  It certainly spent plottnig about conquering or spreading our belief systems across the globe.   It couldn’t be farther from the fact.

My other concern is that this song is implying that all Americans are knaves.  Once again; you move into dangerous territory when you typecast a group of people in a single description, especially when that description is of someone who is dishonest and cannot be trusted.  Most Americans would give the shirt of their backs to someone that needed it.

Again, I have plans to still purchase the CD, if in fact it is my misinterpretation of the lyrics.  It is on my wish list to be sent the day it comes out.  I won’t however, buy into an album that promotes such a negative typecast over any group of peoples, whether they be American, Dane, French, or Martian.  Not going to happen.  I have better things to do with my hard earned and scarce $$$$.

[jakob_hasse]

I
I would like to know what the Americans have cost the Danes.  Please enumerate so I can better understand.  Otherwise, it comes across as a baseless comment.  The one item of truth in that statement is that the U.S is an imperfect nation as I illustrated in my original post.  We have a lot of problems over here that we need to work on.  So who was it that said we were a perfect nation.  It certainly wasn't me, and I don't think that the majority of Americans think that either.  I’m sorry if America didn’t/hasn’t lived up to the worlds expectations.  We are people just like everyone else with the same problems and challenges that every society has to work through. As I said before, what you see in the movies is the farthest thing from what America really is or about.

My other concern is that this song is implying that all Americans are knaves.  Once again; you move into dangerous territory when you typecast a group of people in a single description, especially when that description is of someone who is dishonest and cannot be trusted.  Most Americans would give the shirt of their backs to someone that needed it.

That is the typical sentimental crap you would expect from any proud American as yourself, but in fact nobody cares about how upright, honest and hardworking citizen the average American is, when it is clear how much grief and pain, you have cost the world in the very short history of your stolen land. And even though you believe Europe owes you anything for salvaging democracy and freeing us from nazi Germany or anything else, I'm beginning to believe Hitler was an amateur when it comes to destroy cultures and peoples compared to you. Your current agenda and idea of getting democracy to the poor and naive souls of the Middle East is far from new and the damaged you've caused by inflicting your culture, if you can even call i a culture, upon our European and northern countries is extreme.

So even if the lyrics are anti-american, which I in fact don't believe they are, I think they're only a play of words, you as an American have nothing to than to accept that is the general attitude towards your country in Europe. Your filthy dollars are better spent somewhere else.

By the way, happy holidays!
 

[sed_awk]

Oh sorry: I misread.  I'm still curious about how much the U.S has cost Europe as a whole.  Still please enumerate.  I'd like to encourage you to take a visit to some of the National cemeteries that are in France and Luxemburg.  I've been there.  Over 6,000 American lives were lost on the first day the Americans stormed Normandy to push back the Nazi's.  Your beaches and soil are stained with American blood.  So the next time you think about what the U.S has cost Europe think about how many American children grew up without fathers so people can have the right to demonize the very people, many of whom grew up with out fathers, so Europe could be liberated from the Nazis.  Perhaps the root cause of some of our (not all) problems root to the loss of so many American fathers on European, Japanese and Philippine soil.  I wonder at times what would have happened if we had stayed out of Europe in the mid 1940’s.  Would the people have overthrown the regime like they did during the French Revolution?  How long would it have taken?  What would U.S policy be like today if we did?   Would the U.S be in Iraq today if the original policy of American Isolation was broken in the mid 40’s?   I don’t think that there are really any correct or right answers, but they are still thoughts that are worth discussing and churning over.  

So for those that think that 1940 was a long time ago, it really wasn’t.  My Dad fought in WW2 and is still alive and kicking today.  How he made it out amazes me.  So for me, it’s only a generation away.

Look, my intent for this post was never to get into a name calling or a bickering back and forth.  But recently I have seen things in the news and in this song that concern me.  If anything it has been good for offering up some level of sane and civil discussion.

[Stefan W]

Well well, it seems like this song stirred up some feelings. Just as I knew it would.

I don´t hate americans, in fact a part of me felt good to know that the regime in Iraq got their asses kicked. The invasion of Afganistan is obviously something I couldn't critizise at the moment it happened because of the facts that led up to it.

On the other hand.
The words "defend our freedom" has on occasions been used by the politicians when the nation's freedom never were at stake. It's just a good way to get the people on your side.
Bush knew right before the invasion of Iraq that there were no missiles  (the official reason for the invasion) but at that time his mind was already set. So what were the real reasons?

I just imagine how it would feel to have my relatives killed cause of lies fed from my leaders.

Some americans said that they helped the people of Iraq from an evil dictator, that's right. In that case there are more dictators in the world, maybe not owners of oil fields but what would that have to do with the good cause.

I can't deny that the US government has done alot of good to in history but the lyric was just about on specific event. WWII is maybe the best example of the good deeds.

[sed_awk]

jakob_hasse - Glad to see you’re an expert at early American history, or American history in general.  Have you ever been to the US?  My guess is no.  Personally, I've been to 17 different countries on 3 different continents.  Next year, I'll be going to China for 2 weeks so that will be 18 different countries on 4 different continents. So, while I'm not an expert, I have at least some basis, or foundation, to speak from other than a few hate-mongering influences.  

You seem really angry; if you don't learn how to manage that it will consume you and then destroy you as a person.  I suggest reading a book called Scaramouch by Raphael Sabatini.  Other than being a great read, there is a really good lesson exposed at the end of the book.   But, you seem to be like I was when I was younger.  Angry at the world, and no understanding of why or what I was angry about. But you move off dismissing this recommendation as being from a “Proud and Arrogant American.”  I challenge you to reflect on my words in 15 years.  Maybe then you will understand.  The world is a complicated, disgusting and ironically beautiful place. It would be a much better place if we can discuss our issues in an open forum in a civil and respectful manor.  This way we understand each others positions and grow to be better people as a whole.  But, my guess is you’ll dismiss that notion as well with anger.  So I guess it’s a mute point carrying this any further.

[<Horus-Nikopol>]

I am absolutely certain that the whole song is an allusion to Bush, his administration and illegal unilateral warfare.

However, the lyrics do by no means imply that ALL Americans are knaves. It says "Home of the Knave" (singular), not "knaves". So the knave might very well be the king (Bush) who is also repeatedly refered to in the song.

And the crusaders do not nessecarily mean "all" Americans either, they probably only refer to the soldiers.

And in the way crusaders they are because they invade sovereign nations for ideological reasons. I have great respect for the American military, though, because the soldiers are brave souls who do not choose to go to war, they do as they are told by their superiors. And I as a German am very grateful for the liberation of my country, although we also had millions of children who had to grew up without a father, like my grandma. Still, the Nazis needed to be wiped out and the US saved everone's asses, that's for sure.

Nevertheless - Geroge Bush is a retard, he is severely damaging the reputation of America in the world that will take a long time to heal and he is largely responsible for the deaths of thousands of innocents. A stupid crusader. The lyrics speak the truth, if my interpretation is correct.

Oh and where did you get the lyrics?  :wink:

[The Black Knight]

I agree with you Stefan. The US have done some really good things. WWII was a very good example.

The interesting fact about the invasion of Afghanistan is that not very long ago the Talibans were trained by the US military (or more appropriate - CIA) as a weapon (or more appropriate - a tool) against Russia. Smart move. Just too bad for the USA (including the whole bleedin' world, of course) that they pissed their splendid tool off.

And this does NOT mean that I think terrorism is ok by any way. I'ts awful and horrible. Just as horrible as the bombs over Beirut's civilians, the Hiroshima bomb or the ethnical slaughters in Rwanda.

I just think that it's important to pull the brakes sometimes and think about what's (or who's) feeding the different sides' hatred against the other.

[Stefan W]

One thing I have to add is that the movie "911 fahrenheit" inspired me to the lyric.

Not as good as "Bowling for Columbine" but still great.

[Mindtraveller]

*lyrics*

I still wonder what site has the lyrics, but anyway.

What I like about Falconer's lyrics is that -although they do apply to current events- they are written in a way that can be seen as universal themes. Many times events similar to the ones descibed in that song have happened.

Curiously enough, if you take the words within the context, knave used to mean servant, or humble person. In that way, it can be easily seen that while kings have done their holy quests, it is the people who have had to endure the consequences of their actions. Time and time again has history proven this.

Genghis Khan believed that he was meant to conquer the whole world. Many ancient european kings belived that they had been anointed as such by divine command. And nowadays even some of the leaders of islamic organizations believe that they are doing a holy job by destroying the infidels and paving a way for their religion to take over the world, because that is how it's meant to be by their interpretation of their holy writings. Hitler subscribed to the idea that life was nothing but the survival of the fittest amongst the different races, and that the aryans were the 'chosen ones' (to say it that way), and that the jews were 'enemies of all civilization', he also had a strong belief that he was being aided by "providence" in his fight. The current USA government feels that they have a duty to protect the whole world because they are the ones who 'know better'.

All of these examples disregard the 'collateral damage' (ie. the people who suffer and die) that their enterprises will create.

The song takes a jab at the most recent "king", so what? It's one thing to criticize a government, along with their foreign policies, and another thing is to criticize a country as a whole. The song obviously goes for the former and not the latter.

If you are still 'offended' by these lyrics, then tough luck, grow a thicker skin.