Is "Home of the Knave" Anti-American?

[Stefan W]

HOME OF THE KNAVE


Verse:
Once upon a time
there was a restless king in charge.
What could he contribute
to write some history?
Gold he had plenty of
but plenty could be more
so onwards he marched
on reasons quite obscure.

Bridge:
With a blindfold and sword,
come deliver us from evil.

Chorus:
Great saviour of all,
so honest and brave.
Your land of the free
is the home of the knave.
(Land of the free, home of the knave)

Verse:
Echoes of  crusaders
were heard across the world
as he fought against
the legions sent from hell.
Shadows of the templars
are yet again a fact:
creeds are cast aside
determination’s still intact..

[Mindtraveller]

One thing I have to add is that the movie "911 fahrenheit" inspired me to the lyric.

Well, at least it served a useful purpose. I don't like Michael Moore much, he seems to have a personal 'political' agenda that actually can get in the way of the supposed objectivity he's trying to achieve. Some interesting tidbits here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fahrenheit_9/11_controversy#Controversy_about_the_film.27s_content

[AngelOfMusic]

Honestly, I don't feel the song is anti-American at all.  When I first heard it I was mildly annoyed, but after paying attention to the lyrics, I decided that the song was mostly in reference to Bush.  I got the impression that the song was calling George W. a knave, since the lyrics say "Your land of the free is the home of the knave."  THE Knave.  Not "knaves" but only one.  Singular.

And after reading back through the posts, I notice I basically just said what horus-nikopol said.  :oops:

And honestly, if a US band were to write a song like this (and it HAS been done) no one would bat an eyelash.

[sed_awk]

Found on Websters On-line Dictonary
One entry found for knave.
 

Main Entry: knave
Pronunciation: 'nAv
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Old English cnafa; akin to Old High German knabo boy
1 archaic a : a boy servant b : a male servant c : a man of humble birth or position
2 : a tricky deceitful fellow
3 : JACK 6a

Also, the way knave is worded in the song it can be interpeted as referencing a single person, which after seeing Stephans post I think was the intention.  But it can also reference a collection or group of people.  It depends on how it was written and how it was interpeted by the reader.  

As far as Mike Moore is concerned, I didn't see F 9/11.  Mr Moore knew that he could make millions by exploiting the unpopularity of the current American president.  That movie is no more fair and accurate than what you would hear on the Factor.  I'll listen to what he has to say, but I'll keep it in context by keeping in mind that he had a lot to gain by stirring the pot.

I'll look for the site tonight.  I blew my Linux box away to test Vista RC1, which by the way is a resource hog.  Its not as bad as Beta2 though.  Yeah, I'm a geek

BTW: Stefan.  Thanks for the clarification.  I'll be the first in line to grab your new CD when it hits the streets.

[sed_awk]

Oh BTW: I don't like or listen to US bands.  There are not very many good ones outside the Kamelots, etc.   American metal, and music in general is bland and shallow.  I'm glad we had this dialog.

There was a German poster ealier.  Hey!  I lived in Bremerhaven, Mannhiem and Heidelberg a few years back.  Great towns!  Good beer

[TexJoachim]

I'll look for the site tonight.  I blew my Linux box away to test Vista RC1, which by the way is a resource hog.  Its not as bad as Beta2 though.  Yeah, I'm a geek

No you aren't.
If you were, you would have kept the Linux box and blew away Windows.


Greetz,

Tex

[Radagast]

One thing I have to add is that the movie "911 fahrenheit" inspired me to the lyric.

Well, at least it served a useful purpose. I don't like Michael Moore much, he seems to have a personal 'political' agenda that actually can get in the way of the supposed objectivity he's trying to achieve. Some interesting tidbits here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fahrenheit_9/11_controversy#Controversy_about_the_film.27s_content

I'm staying the heck out of this thread, but I had to pop in to say that I have less than no respect for Michael Moore.

Altruists tend not to own more than one enormous house, if you know what I'm getting at. :roll:

[The Black Knight]

And honestly, if a US band were to write a song like this (and it HAS been done) no one would bat an eyelash.

Yep. Exactly.
Megadeth (AKA D Mustaine), for instance, have a very clear message in all their songs (especially the last album) about what they think about the Bush administration and what direction they're moving, and I don't think many Americans gets angry at them when listening to their music. Sadly, because Dave Mustaine has got one hell of a point. Can't wait for the upcoming album (United Abominations).  :twisted:

[jakob_hasse]

Well well, it seems like this song stirred up some feelings. Just as I knew it would.

How about the song 'Delusion'?

I don´t hate americans, in fact a part of me felt good to know that the regime in Iraq got their asses kicked.

Have they no right to exist on their own? In my opinion the invasion of Iraq was no better than the 9th of April is to danes.

The invasion of Afganistan is obviously something I couldn't critizise at the moment it happened because of the facts that led up to it.

I don't see why?

Have you ever been to the US? My guess is no.

Yes, I have been to the US.

You seem really angry.

I'm not. I just don't see, why I should tolerate anyone who has done so much to destroy the European cultures. I also know what Europe was and what it has become, that has nothing to do with hate-mongering. You don't have to patronize me at all, I'm sure you're very well read, but I have no interest in your trivial litterature.
 

[The Black Knight]

jakob_hasse:
you really dislike America, don't you?

[Prab]

I'm really not good at talking politics, that's why I've stayed out of here.
I have a general feeling that "Northwind" contains some really thought provoking songs and that's a good thing!

One grammatical sidenote:

Also, the way knave is worded in the song it can be interpeted as referencing a single person, which after seeing Stephans post I think was the intention.  But it can also reference a collection or group of people.  It depends on how it was written and how it was interpeted by the reader.

"knave" as in "home of the knave" can not be misread as a reference to a group of people. "knave" is singular and can not be used in a plural meaning.  
"brave" as in "home of the brave" can be used as a plural, because it is an adjective.
it's just a short form for "the ones who are brave". (i.e. "home of the ones who are brave")
for a group of people you'll have to use the word "knaves" and that was not used in the lyrics to the Falconer song. so the meaning is 100% singular.

[Radagast]

I don´t hate americans, in fact a part of me felt good to know that the regime in Iraq got their asses kicked.

Have they no right to exist on their own? In my opinion the invasion of Iraq was no better than the 9th of April is to danes.

You seem really angry.

I'm not. I just don't see, why I should tolerate anyone who has done so much to destroy the European cultures. I also know what Europe was and what it has become, that has nothing to do with hate-mongering. You don't have to patronize me at all, I'm sure you're very well read, but I have no interest in your trivial litterature.
 

Regarding the first part - yes, Iraqis have the right to exist on their own, free of a dictatorship. Leaving aside the semantics of why the war was carried out and the hypocrisy of not removing other dictatorships, are you saying the average Iraqi would be happier under Hussein than under a democratic government?

Regarding the second part - how exactly does the US attemp to "destroy the European cultures"? If people from European nations embrace (what you perceive as) negative aspects of American culture isn't that their own problem?

[jakob_hasse]

Regarding the first part - yes, Iraqis have the right to exist on their own, free of a dictatorship. Leaving aside the semantics of why the war was carried out and the hypocrisy of not removing other dictatorships, are you saying the average Iraqi would be happier under Hussein than under a democratic government?

Whether you're convinced this or that, whether you are a trotzkyist or a democrat, if you're certain enough that you have the right ideas, anyone who's not blessed by your conviction must suffer in your opinion. Because we were born under democracy and christianity, we bought Bush's arguments, but as Stefan said, there was nothing altruistic about the invasion of Iraq.
I also think trying to feed democracy to the muslims is a waste of time and resources.

Regarding the second part - how exactly does the US attemp to "destroy the European cultures"? If people from European nations embrace (what you perceive as) negative aspects of American culture isn't that their own problem?

Ever since WW2 we in europe have been blessed by the yankee saviors. The occupation of Germany and France and their continued presence in our lands during many years have infested our countries with their rotten culture. If they really wanted to help "the oppressed masses of Germany and Europe" they would have dethroned Hitler and gone home.

[The Black Knight]

What's wrong with the German culture? They got some really good beer and good ol' greasy food. And David Hasselhoff.

[Mindtraveller]

And David Hasselhoff.